How long have you been collecting?
Since I was about 12. My dad was a big record collector so I guess I picked it up off him. Iíve always had loads of records in the house, the minute I had any money to buy my own, thatís when I started. If I wasnít buying my own Iíd be ruining my fatherís. These days, Iíve had to give my two year his own records (to ruin) because heís making his way towards mine alarmingly quickly. How long have you been DJing? Do you still DJ as much as you used to?
I guess I started playing records in clubs when I was 19 or 20, so 15 years ago. When I was a student in Manchester friends used to put on parties and we would do the back room where we had more free reign to do whatever we wanted. The pressure wasnít on to make people dance. The early days of my DJing were based in experimentation, throwing in an African track or a hip-hop or a reggae or jazz track. Iíve always liked to surprise people as much as possible.
When you pick up some undiscovered gem, do you think "wow, thatís going to be a killer on the dance floorĒ? Is that one of the criteria for using a track on your compilations?
Sometimes, but this one is much less dance floor oriented. The space Iíve been in the last six or seven years has been aimed at making people dance, and thatís coincided with [the existence of] Soundway. Thereís been a slew of other records Iíve been into but havenít had the means to output them. Having taken a break from Soundway last year, and having young children, sitting around sifting through records I thought why not put out these records that Iíve been building up from Nigeria all these years? I know they go together really well but theyíre not all aimed at the dancefloor but theyíre all totally unique. Iíve had this compilation in mind for four of five years. To answer your question, yes, but less and less at this time. It doesnít have to be aimed at the dance floor it just has to be good. That being said, the next one coming up is going to be filled with banging dance tracks. Iíve spent a lot of time researching Nigerian music, trying to get my head around all the music coming out in Nigeria around this time. The next one is slightly later than this Ė í74 to í79, kind of disco funk, and the one after that is psychedelic rock with not a saxophone in sight.
Do you think the notion of what a "dance floor tuneĒ might be has expanded over the years?
To be honest, I donít really care right now. Whether people want to dance to them or listen to them in their car. You know, like the rock oneÖ When I was really young I used to be into progressive rock and when I was really young, like 13, I was into metal. But throughout my 20s I was into the jazz funk thing with lots of horns and guitar as a primarily rhythmic instrument. But so many people have emailed me about the rock music of Nigeria that I started listening to more of the records. The rock scene was quite big. So after the disco funk special, weíre doing the Nigeria rock special. And itís great music, you just have to get past the things in your head that stop you from appreciating a rock guitar solo. Really, Iím not looking at it at the moment as to whether itís for the dance floor, if itís good Iím going to put it out.
Well thatís the thing. You talk about the scholarship and the work over five years to put this together. I always feel that your compilations are far more than just banging out tracks. Theyíre real artistic and somewhat historical statements.
Well, it takes a long time and it takes dedication and a lot of people donít realise it. Itís a lot of groundwork and a hell of a lot of time.
Is it getting harder to do?
I donít know. Iím having more ideas for compilations right now because Iíve put a lot of hard work and effort and legwork in over the last few years. Whatís getting harder is putting them out because people arenít buying them as much as they used to. Financially itís harder. Thatís the other thing. People expect the chains and to some extent the consumer will lump a record like Nigeria Special in the same boat as some crappy compilation, which was licensed in one afternoon. It hasnít had any love or care or time taken over it. Itís not packaged very nicely, the artwork isnít done very well. Nigeria Specialís had a lot of time and money spent on it and people expect to download it for free ó thatís the hard thing at the moment is to put out quality releases and to have people respect them as quality releases ícause I think peopleís appreciation of music is not necessarily going down ó I think people appreciate it as much as ever but people donít value music the way they used to. Theyíre not willing to dig into their pockets and pay for it. At the end of the day as much as itís your love and passion there are bills to be paid.
You bring up challenges from digital music online. I guess your compilations are available for sale track by track on iTunes?
Well, they will be in a couple of weeks. We like to have the physical product available for a few weeks before it goes up onto iTunes.
There must be differences in sales from track to track.
Yeah, there probably will be. Again thatís another hard thing for putting out a compilation. I mean, itís fairly obvious from reading the reviews, the feedback you get, of what tunes appeal to most people.
But Iím sure if I were to ask you if that influence how you chose tracks for a compilation youíd say no.
Iíve always tried to keep the quality high on our releases, not patching it out with some rubbish just for the hell of it. I think the reggae market has been slightly guilty over the years of doing that, especially these days because itís getting harder and harder to find a reggae track which hasnít been reissued.
Letís move on to the compilation. It took five years to put it together?
Initially I only had two or three tracks which I thought would go together well, but I thought it would be nice to put out a compilation that was a bit more bluesy and mid-tempo and tied together the highlife scene with the Afro scene and the younger generation. This was, I think, the most creative period of Nigerian music, a very vibrant time all over the world really. The added factor of it coming after a three-year civil war gave it more diversity, intrigue and newfound confidence. Something Iíve been thinking about for a long time. The collecting, amassing, sorting through and traveling took five years.
What did you want to achieve with this compilation that other comps havenít, for instance (Afrostrutís) Nigeria 70, which came out a few years ago?
Iím not really too fussed about comparing it to other compilations. I just wanted a nice compilation that people could put on and sit down and listen to. Iíve noticed with a lot of my friends who arenít as interested in dance music as I am, a lot of them will say, "I like your CDs but I donít really find the time to listen to them because theyíre so full on.Ē And people have really enjoyed this one, itís sounds great just as an album to listen to. I suppose I just wanted to open peopleís ears whoíve looked at Soundway before, and weíve been progressing towards this with our latest releases, and expose music that isnít jazz- or funk-based and do it by comparing and sitting it beside music that is jazz and funk-based and showing where Afrobeat came from, and that these kinds of records were sitting side by side when you went to a record store in Lagos in 1973.
Do you have a standard methodology when you go to Colombia or Nigeria as to where youíre going to look for records, a network you can tap into?
Itís a pretty easy formula, you turn up and you go to a record store and you find people who are into music at these stores and it snowballs from there. You go to this guy and that guyís house ó it would be much the same in Toronto if you wanted to look for funk. Youíd turn up with a few numbers and the names of a few record stores and youíd soon get under the skin. You spend as much time as you can with them, drinking, going out in the evening, going out to record stores, finding collectors. Once people find out that youíre into the music like they are, theyíre willing to help you out.
Sometimes one hears that, concerning vintage African sounds, "Africans donít care about this old music.Ē Is that true?
Well, there is an alarming neglect. But itís a massive generalisation to say Africans donít like old music.
There are a lot of old guys who fondly remember and love the old music but if you compare it to Colombia, itís definitely less alive than someplace like Barranquila, which along with Cartgena is the main coastal centre of music in Colombia. Youíll meet guys in their early 20s playing tracks from the í60s and í70s just as much as a new track. There are very few young guys into old music in Anglophone countries like Nigeria and Ghana especially because I guess theyíre so much more influenced by American and English speaking music in particular like hip-hop, ragga and reggae. In Benin and Senegal ó French speaking places ó you feel thereís more of an interest in their own culture and their own musical culture. You canít generalise, but there is an alarming neglect of the music of the past. Especially with the catalogs of the music of the past, some of the master tapes have just been dumped and forgotten. But you could argue from an African perspective that there are more important things to think about.
Do you feel that if you hadnít gotten to these records theyíd be lost forever?
There are always a few guys who collect. Thereís a friend of mine, heís Nigerian and lives in New York, heís collected quite a few things. But there are very few people who are willing to put in the hours and time and look hard for these things. Coming back to your question before, thatís the aim of these compilations ó to keep the music from dying so as many people as possible can hear it.
Do you feel like you have to include certain artists in order to tell this story?
Not at all. I wanted to keep as far away from that as possible. I wanted to put together music that sat together well. Thereís a lack of big names, really. Itís amazing how many times youíll read a review and the reviewer will start off immediately talking about the big names of Nigerian music, which is kind of inevitable I suppose.
But itís more self-referential for critics to write about that: "Hereís what I know about Nigerian music.Ē
It would be like reviewing any British rock band of the í60s or í70s and [be criticised for] not talking about Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin, so why do you always bring up Sunny Ade and Fela Kuti? They deserve all the respect they have but sometimes there are even more surprising things that are less heard. So no, I didnít need to include any names.
Is it difficult to contact the artists to get clearance and pay royalties?
It is. In Nigeria itís actually easier than in Ghana. There were main three record companies in the í70s, they were all foreign ones: EMI, Decca and Philips. And when those three companies left they sold their Nigerian catalogs to three Nigerian companies that are still active and represent those catalogs. The problem they have is that not all the artists are still in touch with them, so itís hard for them to figure out where the money is going to go. In Ghana, I found the artists and licensed directly from them. Itís a complicated business.
Did they want a lot of money to license them? Iíd heard that Discos Fuentes (subject of the Colombia! compilation) wanted a lot of money.
The Nigerian guys had a lot of experience licensing these tracks through Nigeria 70 and the Nigerian album I did before called Afro Baby, so we did the same deal as before. Discos Fuentes was surprised that there was a market for their stuff outside the Latin market, they kind of thought they knew the market for their stuff. They were surprised there was a market outside that for their stuff. Weíre working on another Fuentes comp, it should be out by the end of the year. Weíre also doing a Panama! 2 coming upÖ
Youíve got quite the active release schedule coming up!
This year is the biggest year in the history of the label. There are a few factors involved with that. I can sense the market changing and I want to get these ones out before itís harder and harder to do these things. I donít know if Iím still going to be putting out compilations when Iím in my 60s, nowís the time to do it when I still have my passion, the audience and the market still is somewhat there. Itís a scary thing ó you spend tens of thousands of pounds, and the way the music business is set up, you happily pack up boxes of this to your distributor and hope theyíre not going to go bust, and go down with all of your money. And thatís happening more frequently. You never have any idea that the money you spend on these things is coming back. So nowís the time, we have our audience, we have a bunch of people who are very supportive of our label, so nowís the time. What other impetus is there?
Miles Cleret will be DJing at Turning Point, Saturday April 5, at the Gladstone Hotel in Toronto.
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